Faith in God, Faith in Mumbo Jumbo (Book Notes: Critiques of God)
In Critiques of God, edited by Peter Angeles, Sidney Hook writes:
It makes sense to say, “My belief that X is my friend is based on faith, not evidence or reason,” but only because I know what the phrases “X is a friend” and “X is my friend” mean. Similarly the statement “Belief in God’s existence is based on faith, not rational evidence or argument” takes on meaning only if I am able to describe what it is I have faith in.
But how can anyone who eschews intelligence or reason know or describe what he has faith in? How can he distinguish between the assertion, “I have faith in God” and the assertion “I have faith in Mumbo Jumbo”?
Theists like Christians have strong beliefs, there is no question about it, and they certainly wouldn’t regard their “faith in God” as practically indistinguishable from “faith in Mumbo Jumbo.” This doesn’t mean that the two aren’t indistinguishable, though. If Christians wish to insist that they can be distinguished, all that’s required is for them to actually do that: distinguish one from the other.
How can they go about doing this? They need to explain what “God” is and how “God” is different from Mumbo Jumbo. This shouldn’t be so hard — at least, it shouldn’t be hard if their “God” is something that makes sense and warrants sensible, rational belief.
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Comments
I don’t think there is such thing as Atheism. Just the fact to believe in nothing is believe in something. For years I searched the true meaning of God and its existence. I have denied it, i have question it, but I was face to devil and evilness. I came to ask if evil exist it means that God must exist. how many thing can you see with naked eyes? there a phenomenon that exist that human can not explain, that goes beyond rationality. so far nobody ever proved to me that God does not exist. Even the evolutionary theory is logic, but vague. it can also be link with the idea of creation.
You really should take the time to read some of the introductory information on atheism before posting something like this. Quite frankly, you make it clear that you don’t know anything about atheism.
Atheism isn’t the belief in nothing. Atheism isn’t an assertion requiring proof that no gods exist. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods - nothing more, nothing less.
Alright,look Mr Atheism, granted you dont possess a faith in God the Creator. So I assume you have faith in evolution (which incidentally requires much more “blind” faith than does Christianity}. Religion aside, ANY intelligent person should be able to consider the eco system, the complexity of the human brain, birth, all the organs of the human body, the water system, etc.,etc. and have the intelligence to know that a prehistoric explosion that results in the formation of all these perfect cycles and systems is way beyond plain stupid. Its really simple. A Creator is just plain more believable. Please.
1. God and evolution aren’t mutually exclusive.
2. One doesn’t “have faith in” evolution, no more than one “has faith in” plate tectonics or gravity.
Yes, please: please support your claim rather than simply insist that those who don’t agree with you are stupid.
It interests me how people go on and on about how perfect the Earth is, and how impossible it is for a random sequence of events to produce something like it without the help of a Creator. This isn’t the case, however. The real question is how is it not possible for a planet like the Earth to exist? The universe is nearly (if not completely) infinite, with hundreds of billions of stars and many more planets. The chances of one of these planets not being absolutely perfect for life is pretty slim. If the universe is in fact infinitely large (though there is a good amount of scientific evidence against this) then there is an infinitely large possibilty that there will be a life-sustaining planet.
So really, what you see around us isn’t a miracle at all, just confirmation of a scientific probablility.
Alright dude. Easy on Danielle. She’s just trying to educate you. It interests ME how much you guys buy into these “scientists”. By the way, is Scientology based on science? Far away planet inhabitors or whatever Ron Hubbard the famous sci-fi writer turned “religious guru” who slept with more women than Hugh Hefner ,preached about. Is your scientific stance behind the expert carbon daters who tell you dinosaurs roamed the earth 50 million years ago and that the sun loses several feet per few days due to burnout from its diameter (gee, if its been burning that long, wouldn’t it be gone by now, or if its been around that long, wouldn’t it have been touching the earth at its largest diameter?)We’ll leave that to the expert scientists. Boy they sure have that carbon dating thing down to a science. There has been reports of animals less than a week dead to be several thousand years old…….according to scientists. Bottom line, the earth IS perfect. It relies on nothing to keep if running perfectly. And if you do think there are more life-sustaining planets on one of those billion stars, go ahead. Prove that.I dont know if you guys have ever read the bible, but there are more scientific FACTS proven in some cases hundreds of years after being first written (Poor ole Chris Columbus could have read his bible and known that “the earth rotates and yet is hung on nothing” without being stupid-scared he would fall off an eternal waterfall at the edge of planet earth. And if what YOU see around you isn’t a miracle at all, just confirmation of a scientific probability, then you must be the saddest athiest in the world. Your great,great,great,etc. grandfather,God really had more in mind for you than you turned out.
About what?
Which ones, and why?
Well, yes, it is a science - not a relgion.
Prove it.
You mean, it doesn’t rely on the sun?
I’ve read it several times. Please, cite these scientific facts you refer to.
It still amazes me how people like this still exist…
She’s just trying to educate you
I’m sure she would accept it if we tried to educate her though, so why should we?
By the way, is Scientology based on science?
No
if its been burning that long, wouldn’t it be gone by now
No, considering its size
There has been reports of animals less than a week dead to be several thousand years old
please show us some evidence of this.
Bottom line, the earth IS perfect
i second austin, prove it.
I dont know if you guys have ever read the bible, but there are more scientific FACTS proven in some cases hundreds of years after being first written
I don’t know if you have ever read the bible, but much of what it says is wrong too. It even contradicts itself on numerous occasions. http://www.atheists.org/christianity/contradictions.html lists just a few.
And if what YOU see around you isn’t a miracle at all, just confirmation of a scientific probability, then you must be the saddest athiest in the world.
What’s sad about knowing something to be right instead of just hoping some myth is right?
Well, at least those religious freaks believe in the “Holy Bible”, rather than “The Matrix Trilogy” or “Star Wars”. Geez, why can’t they take that book as just another lame science fiction.
Nothing like being argued with by a wild pack of athiests! Love it. God and evolution aren’t mutually exclusive. Well, what else is there? If YOU weren’t created or evolved from “something”, how’d ya get behind that computer?You tell me to support my claim of creation. You support your claim of whatever. Who do you give your creational credit to? You say I give so much credit to scientists. But one of you say there are billions of stars and surely one of them must be life sustaining. Which one? Support that. Can ya find it? Of course the earth relies on the sun. Everything in the solar system relies on each other. You say that considering its size, the sun could continue for 70 million years without noticeble size deterioration? Do the math, man.Thats not science, just 7th grade Algebra.I didn’t realize buddhists watched Star Wars. Which part of the bible are you calling sci-fi. “George Lucas would be proud” .The flood? (which has been proven, want proof?) That there really was a man who lived in 1st century named Jesus (written by many historians SHORTLY AFTER HIS DEATH including the most famous Josephus). If Im a religious freak, what type of freak are you? You want proof of faulty carbon dating tests? If you do, I can give you the book names, in case you think that they are really highly accurate.Evolution wasn’t even a THEORY before about 125 years ago. Even Darwin concluded before his death that he couldn’t support any of his own claims. You know something he didn’t?Come on, man. I just want to hear from you that you came from monkey. Or egg. Or something. Please respond quickly, Im biting my nails. Thanks, Joe
Pack? Wild?
It’s also not relevant to this post. If you want to discuss evolution, where all of your misconceptions can be corrected (and all you posted are misconceptions), you should post on the forum. Further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Yes, you should support claims you make. People in the forum don’t think much of people who post claims they can’t or won’t support.
If you have proof, post it in the forum. Since you’ll be the first person to ever provide proof of a world-wide flood like that described in Genesis, it will be an honor for you forum to be the venue where it is revealed to the world.
The earliest records date to more than 30 years after he would have died, if he existed.
Relativity has been around for even less time. Same with plate tectonics.
Prove it. In the forum.
Alright, Austin. Please define in your words the term mumbo jumbo.Thataways I can tell you the difference between faith and your definition. Hurry
If you’re serious, then you’ve seriously misunderstood the piece. You appear to be contrasting “faith” with “mumbo jumbo,” but those terms aren’t being contrasted in this piece.
Then what is?
By the way, you deleted my last post citing it was an issue for the forum. Are not statements concerning plate tectonics and Star Wars also forum material, or just mine because you refuse to sit down and prove yourself.
“Faith in God” is being contrasted with “Faith in Mumbo Jumbo.” The question the book asks is: how is one supposed to differentiate between the two? Feel free to explain if you know how.
I deleted your last post because it was off-topic as a comment here. I specifically told you that further off-topic posts would be deleted and that you should post such things in the forum. I even gave you a link.
Faith is defined as belief in something, unseen, but perceived. Something that is known to be true in ones heart and taken as a truth. Like your marriage, or your parents love to you, etc. Faith in God to a christian is proven to one by a persons changed life and belief system. Therefore hope is turned into reality. Faith in mumbo jumbo such as voodoo, reincarnation ,magic or whatever you define as make-believe mumbojumbo can easily be accepted by some people as truth. It happens every day. Every day people tune in to John Edwards Crossing Over to watch family’s slam dunk their own dignity as they supposedly communicate with their dead loved ones. Can you have faith in that? Sure. Faith in God terms is not just hope, its knowledge. Faith in mumbo jumbo is just embarisin’.Look,Austin, life’s short. I know you used to be a Christian, or else you just read the bible for lite readings sake. I have faith in God and you have faith in the nonexistense of God. So can YOU distinguish the difference between faith in “There is no God” and faith in Mumbo Jumbo?
Defined by whom? Where? What do you mean by “perceived”?
How is any of that “unseen”?
Well, adherents of any religion - and no religion - can say the same.
Knowledge, technically defined, is a “justified, true belief.” So how is one’s faith in a god any more justified than the other faiths you describe.
I don’t have faith in the nonexistence of any gods.
* PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE THAT GOD IS REAL??
* I MEAN WHY THE HELL IS THERE A 33RD VERSION OF THE BIBLE?? (MAYBE MORE)WE ALL KNOW THE BIBLE IS THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD….IT’S LIKE A STORY; U HEAR A STORY SOMEONE TELLS SOMEONE ELSE AND THEY ADD THERE OWN STORY ON TO IT,AND THEY TELL SOMEONE ELSE AND THEY ADD THERE OWN STORY TO IT..AND SO ON AND SO ON…WHO’S TO SAY HALF THIS STUFF IN THE BIBLE IS ALL MADE UP,HAVING THE ‘33RD’ VERSION ON THE SHELVES!!????? PEOPLE MAY ONLY BELIEVE THE BIBLE COZ ITS THE BIBLE…….SHOW ME PROOF THAT MAN WALKED ON WATER…..I MEAN WAS U THERE,DID U WITNESS IT??!! ERMMM NO!
*TELL ME WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE IN SOMETHING LIKE GOD WHEN THERE IS NO PRACTICAL EVIDENCE OF GOD-ONLY WHAT THE BIBLE STATES???
*THE DAY I SEE SOMETHING FROM GOD IS THE DAY I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BELIEVE WHAT U SEE AND NOT HEAR OR READ!!!!!